In this episode, the fearless leaders of Wier/Stewart "dive deep and fly high" into the importance of a brand name.
You'll learn:
Need a Branding Buddy?
Check out some of our favorite projects!
https://www.wierstewart.com/work
In this episode, the fearless leaders of Wier/Stewart "dive deep and fly high" into the importance of a brand name.
You'll learn:
Need a Branding Buddy?
Check out some of our favorite projects!
https://www.wierstewart.com/work
[00:00:01.320] - Jackie
Hey, everyone, welcome back to the Weird/Smart podcast, I'm your host, Jackie Rogers, and social media strategist here at Wier Stewart with me today is Alex and Daniel. They are the founders, the creatives, the co masterminds, the collaborators. And I like how I did that.
[00:00:21.060] - Alex
I'm the Wier.
[00:00:22.830] - Daniel
I'm the Stewart.
[00:00:24.570] - Jackie
Excellent.
[00:00:25.440] - Jackie
So today's episode is about What's in a Brand Name. And I feel like you guys are most excellent when it comes to brand. You guys have a really strong presence in the community. I wanted to get your take on what it takes to make a brand name, something really, really good. So my first question, if that's OK.
[00:00:49.020] - Alex
Proceed.
[00:00:50.550] - Jackie
Thank you.
[00:00:53.220] - Jackie
So in your professional opinion, how do you know if a brand name works? How is this even evaluated? Go to you, Alex.
[00:01:01.590] - Alex
Well, I mean, first, you, it's almost like kind of the same principles apply that apply in design. Like, what is it? Is it trying to be friendly? Is it trying to sound medical? Is it trying to be different? Are you trying to understand what it is the product or service is by hearing the name of it, you know, or are you trying to be, you know, create some sense of intrigue around that?
[00:01:28.530] - Alex
You know, a lot of times you'll signal something is new by giving it a name that no one's ever heard of, you know, stuff like that. So it's always kind of building parameters around why or how it needs to function from, like, a marketing standpoint that kind of determines what you end up calling. Yeah, the rules are the same for every product, company or organization. You could really need to stand out just from like an organic search standpoint and make sure that people are typing in the first five letters of your name accurately.
[00:02:06.570] - Daniel
And those rules change as technology changes. I mean, back in the day, you know, that's why there's like a quadruple a, you know, to have sourced indiscernible because it was first in the phone book. And, you know, those same challenges exist today. But just, you know, online and what people are kind of searching for. But so first and foremost, what makes a brooming great is that it is is on target with with what it needs to do from a practical standpoint.
[00:02:39.940] - Jackie
Mhm. Yeah, that's a really good point.
[00:02:42.030] - Jackie
And like it's not always like the brand name has to say what your business does even though that sometimes that works, that sometimes works for your audience. Yeah.
[00:02:49.810] - Daniel
I think a lot of people think that a brand name like the they always say I want it to be memorable, you know, and you never forget it after after you hear it once in while that is that is great. And if and if you can achieve that, that's awesome. But a better way to think about it is do they remember yours before next in line in your competition?
[00:03:12.690] - Daniel
So it's really about it's not about just a recall. You hear it once and you remember it. You can Google it. You can tell your friends without messing up the name what it is. It's it's about kind of standing out from from your competition. So Google's a good example. Think about like those first couple of search engines, like one was Ask Jeeves, right. Do you have a dog? Yeah. But I mean, think about Ask Jeeves.
[00:03:38.680] - Alex
Like the idea of that naming parameter is it's like a butler for the internet. No, it's like a cartoon butler thing. Yeah, like that. It's just such a bizarre thought with Internet technology that there's some guy in white gloves and coat tails. If you say, do I have shingles? And then Geeves sends you to WebMD, which will of course, affirm that agrest you got everything on WebMD.
[00:04:03.580] - Daniel
And I'm pretty sure I got shingles on Christmas this year.
[00:04:06.150] - Alex
Right.
[00:04:07.230] - Daniel
What does that mean?
[00:04:07.830] - Alex
Merry Christmas.
[00:04:08.910] - Daniel
What does that mean?
[00:04:09.610] - Alex
I don't know.
[00:04:09.930] - Daniel
It's worse. It's worse than coal.
[00:04:11.490] - Alex
If it's worse, it's worse than coal.
[00:04:14.670] - Daniel
What have you done one this week
[00:04:16.650] - Alex
Do you still believe in Santa Claus?
[00:04:18.870] - Daniel
I do like 90 percent. Right, good. And that's what he brought home then.
[00:04:22.650] - Daniel
I'm surprised he got shingles at some point about it, but. Yeah, but that's that's just a weird like, oh, how am I going to get how am I going to get people to understand what it is this thing does. Oh, it's like a butler that knows everything. Yeah. I like that.
[00:04:42.840] - Jackie
You brought up Google too because like Google is a weird it's a weird name but now it's so synonymous with like a verb. It has exactly like it's so synonymous with like finding out what you need to know, like oh I don't know what this is. Just Google it.
[00:04:58.080]
Yeah, Google it.
[00:05:01.960] - Jackie
All right, so when creating a brand, what really has to be considered first when you're creating that brand name for the first time, like what message should the brand name say about the business, about the owners or to the audience? Does it have to all be one or do you have to like pick one of those objectives? Like, where do people even start again?
[00:05:23.140] - Alex
I think it depends on what it is you're trying to name. Like, for instance, I think it was a good name. We named Tech Golf Apparel Company Fik. Right, because we it sounds cool, you know, and it's really what is is this type of fox that's considered one of the most highly adaptive animals on the planet, because as we speak at Sears and bleeds off here in the desert, these know these golf shirts for ten. These players like and not be as hot, but they're still comfortable and all that kind of stuff.
[00:05:55.810] - Alex
And so there were that was another one that was kind of like the the animal was sort of metaphorical for what the stuff did. But it still had a cool name like Ben, just even if you didn't know what that meant. That's kind of like the a lot of times that's sort of the the the double whammy is if you get something that sounds cool but you don't necessarily know what it means and you can still unpack it, you know, like singer Singo doesn't mean like it's derivative of Latin and that means like to surround or protect.
[00:06:32.170] - Alex
And we did it for this pest control and home security company, you know, but Singo just sounds like a techie different than, you know, triple a pest control. Right. Or something like that. So sometimes it's kind of finding that spot of something that's memorable and it's cool.
[00:06:51.010] - Daniel
Um, you know, it really depends on what you're trying to get done. Yeah. Once you know something that you love, you have to put it through the eliminator challenge of running it past the trademark attorney for an initial search, finding the url and making sure that that's correct. And then just a variety of.
[00:07:11.520] - Alex
Yeah, no one wants, .net , that you know what I mean?
[00:07:15.580] - Daniel
No.
[00:07:17.050] - Jackie
So that's a really good segue into my next question. I'm actually going to hit it to Daniel after I don't know if everybody knows that they just drank beer at the same time. I just want to throw that out there,
[00:07:27.220] - Daniel
Synergy.
[00:07:30.460] - Jackie
All right. So, Daniel, what is the biggest challenge you see with businesses both large and small when it comes to creating a memorable brand name for themselves, understanding the value that the name is going to have?
[00:07:44.890] - Daniel
Naming can be arduous and in some cases can be an expensive process to get through in some cases, because there's a lot more work that goes into it than than meets the eye. Many times companies and products are named because the business owner had an epiphany in the shower or while he was mowing the lawn, he thought of it or he's been cooking up this idea for the last ten years and he's finally ready to launch it. But I think understanding the value of the name, because this is is this intangible thing, you know, I think clients understand, like once the name is is there, you need the visual identity and the logo, the collateral.
[00:08:25.810] - Daniel
And you've got to wrap the trust. You've got to do whatever the website, all the stuff. But it's great when we have a client come, it comes in and says, let's not worry about any of that stuff until we know we have the perfect name. And then we can really, you know, invest the amount of time with research, creative exercises, making, you know, just multiple lists on different categories of naming strategy. And in some cases, you will test it so you can do, you know, online user testing and focus groups and can kind of things like that.
[00:09:04.120] - Daniel
So challenge number one is is small to medium sized business owners really understanding that the value of it and we've had a lot of clients that really do you know, I tell you, I don't know what it equates to, you know, to the bottom line. But, you know, finishing fifth as a name is a restaurant that you named that has this kind of unpacked kind of storytelling behind it. But is this one of those it just sounds cool.
[00:09:30.910] - Alex
Like if you had no idea what it meant. It sounds cool, right? Well, it does. And I don't think there is that meaning never gets unpacked anywhere. Know, they just kind of know it. But I think it's one to personally, I think it is the most difficult thing that we do. It's really hard to do. Yeah. Because, you know, you don't like the last thing you do is see if it's a viable option, you know, because you're exploring like, you know, what about.
[00:10:01.920] - Alex
This business or service? You know, is different or totally should it be some made up kind of word or should it be something that is cool or is it and or is it two different things? And then you figure something out, which you're like, oh my god that's it. Then its taken. Yeah. You know, in like there's so many things and there's so many industries where just everything, everything you can just start typing random shit in and it is taken.
[00:10:31.100] - Alex
Yeah. Yeah. All taken. And I got so it's, it's really it's really hard to find something that's unique and that will resonate and it's just kind of a tonal thing. Like you get these things where you get a good name. I think finch and fifth is a great example that like if you go to that place and you check it out and of course is cool, it just it feels like it's completely natural. And there's no disconnect between the audience you're trying to attract to something like that in the name where they go well that makes sense
[00:11:04.760] - Alex
I tell you, because a bad name is like is terrible when you when you just like a and like, I'm not going to put in a bad name.
[00:11:13.490] - Alex
I think it's really bad news out there. But just where you see something you like, it's called what. That's cool. Yeah I cool. Yeah. I don't even want to like engage with me. Anything that stupid like that sounds right. I'll tell you. Another Gluebaby for instance.
[00:11:31.220] - Daniel
Yes.
[00:11:32.900] - Daniel
Well now, now I'm going to have to buy something called gluebaby and get yacht and put it in your face.
[00:11:39.000] - Alex
It's still a shitty name.
[00:11:40.190] - Daniel
So this is a little bit this is kind of nuance to that question.
[00:11:44.960] - Daniel
What's difficult about naming if you are naming a new product, new service, a new company, that can be a challenge, but there's a whole other set of challenges if you are renaming something. So if you have to rename a company, rebrand a product, you have not only an audience that knew the previous name, but you got the business owners and the stakeholders who may love the previous name. But they have to change for some kind of business reason.
[00:12:15.560] - Daniel
So when you present the new naming options to the client, they have to figure out how they disassociate their love and equity in what it always was. And and look at this brand new thing, this word they've never heard of in some cases and say, I can love this not only as much, but maybe more than what we have been for the last four years. And then again, depending on their goals, it's like, are you trying to bring some equity of the old one forward?
[00:12:44.360] - Alex
Are you trying to signal to everybody that you're really changing something significantly about how you're doing business or that you are different from other people so that like, you know, that's a whole 'nother path that you go down when you say we're we are departing from, you know, triple-A. I can I can tell you whatever. And there's never been a case where somebody like me, I'll just name whatever you want. We don't care.
[00:13:11.270] - Jackie
Well, it's such a journey for like any business owner, like even from the entrepreneurial space where I was a lot people, I would see people like flip flop their names because they're continuously refining themselves and their audience. But then that's kind of dangerous, right? Because then people don't really recognize you at any point. There's also like, you know, in naming stuff and building a brand around a name, there's like is this is the name checking the boxes that it needs to check.
[00:13:40.100] - Alex
And then can we, you know, can we make it more X, Y or Z and how we're applying it across the border. How are you putting it out there? You know, it doesn't always have to be like the name does everything, you know, because or describe what it does, you know.
[00:14:00.440] - Jackie
So it went for someone who's, like, not even loving their brand name anymore. What are what do you think are I'm going off script here, what are like some of the steps that they have to go through to realize, like, oh, shit, I might actually need help with this new, like, brand name thing. Like, how do they get from the point realizing like, I'm not really loving this anymore to actually getting help and getting something new out there.
[00:14:25.770] - Alex
I think in a it is like has something fundamentally changed in society around your name that makes that that somehow makes an antiquated and like a bad way, you know, or sound like it is, you know, you know, no longer relevant or something like that.
[00:14:46.530] - Daniel
You know how many companies in this town of the word Dixie in their name?
[00:14:51.750] - Alex
Yeah, but stuff like that or or, you know, things that. If your audience, you know, if your audience has shifted in a major way and and you don't feel like the name of the brand is is is somehow no longer relevant to them or they don't or they don't care about it. You know, generally we've had people before. Well, and not in the name so much, but try to get us to rebrand them when really it's not like the brand is fine and the brand has equity and it's kind of the stuff around the brand that's sort of become tired.
[00:15:32.890] - Alex
So it's not always the answer to rename back. It's pretty much the renaming of something that's really rare. I mean, it's almost 90 percent as you're naming something that's just come into existence, you're pretty much you're pretty much approaching it like launching a brand new company.
[00:15:49.270] - Alex
If you're if you're renaming like you all went through it or a lot of times you've had a consolidation, you know, like two brands or someone swap something out or, you know, things. And there have been mergers and you can't you can't use either. You have to create something that's completely new. So those are some different occasions that that happens. Let's say those are those are pretty rare. You know, or, you know, Stewart ends up being a serial killer and we can't call Wier Stewart anymore.
[00:16:26.080] - Jackie
Do I need to be worried?
[00:16:27.370] - Daniel
Just got to get I can still be one.
[00:16:31.480] - Jackie
Give me time.
[00:16:33.270] - Jackie
I have one more question for you. So for our audience listening today, what's one thing they can do to evaluate the strength of their brand name today?
[00:16:43.190] - Alex
One, how unique is it, you know, just if like just in general in searching it or something, you know, if you have back in the day, if you were called AAA, that's such an awful effort to keep going. I know. But like, you know. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
[00:17:00.150] - Alex
Or you called your call, you know, pinnacle something. Right. You know, we're just. Yeah. Mean the top or something like that. And there's just all manner of things that kind of have the same idea. That's a very old idea of just naming something after the peak of something, I'm sure you know, so a lot of that stuff gets. You know, overuse, I'd say number one is, is it is it I tell you a weird question to ask yourself is if your company has has developed a not on purpose, but has developed some kind of shortened nickname that people call it, and sometimes that's a good thing, sometimes us that's not so good.
[00:17:43.650] - Daniel
You know, if it gets shortened to something that's made it easier to say or easier to pronounce, that's not all that's not always bad. But like your your friends that you love most, you probably don't call them by their real name. You call them by a nick name. Right. So a lot of times we're working with companies. We're like, what's going to happen colloquially with this once people start using it and love it? Well, they're going to call it this kind of phonetic shortened version of it.
[00:18:09.360] - Daniel
And then we ask ourselves, do we like that? Do we like being Bobby instead of Robert ? You know, it's like, yeah, but everybody loves Bobby is great. Or people say not this guy. Bobby used to whip my ass on the playground all the time. And I'm like, yeah, well, it's kind of like any brand, especially when you start and you have to have the descriptor of what it is and then people just drop it, call it right.
[00:18:29.370] - Alex
The first thing. Right. You know, I don't know if Nike was ever called Nike Sporting Goods or Nike Solutions. Yeah. Or something like that.
[00:18:38.550] - Alex
But that was like I think the first thing first thing I ever name was toast. Yeah. Which is a liquor store, but thought toast was good because a toast implies a celebration and it's beer and wine and liquor and all that stuff you toast with. I kind of liked it because I don't think of a toast is the first thing I think of a piece of toast that it's like the thing is me after a hangover.
[00:19:00.750] - Jackie
Yeah, correct. Well, that's true.
[00:19:02.550] - Alex
You eat toast when you're hungover?
[00:19:03.780] - Alex
Yeah, I need eat.
[00:19:07.960] - Daniel
The toast is the beginning.
[00:19:12.030] - Jackie
This this is a really good conversation. I'm so glad you guys have to come on and talk with me about brand names.
[00:19:19.170]
We always love when you invite us on our show.
[00:19:21.390]
Thank you. I do what I can
[00:19:23.190]
Then again,, I'm assuming Wes wasn't available.
[00:19:25.140]
He was not available, Wes is never available. He's busy man one day will get him one day.
[00:19:30.600]
Well, Alex, thanks for coming on. Daniel, you did great.
[00:19:33.870]
Thank you.
[00:19:34.270] - Jackie
You're welcome.
[00:19:37.860] - Jackie
For everyone who's listening, if you want to keep up with Alex and Daniel, just make sure to follow wier Stewart on what did you say. Sorry, WHERE Stewart is what I meant. My Colorado accent, you know.
[00:19:50.430] - Alex
Oh yeah. We'll blame it on that.
[00:19:53.940] - Jackie
Please follow Wier/Stewart on social media. If you wanna check out some of our rebranding case studies, I have dropped a couple of links in the bio here and we will chat again in a couple of weeks.
[00:20:08.010] - All
Bye!